Dale Richardson (transcript)

Dale Richardson

Dale Richardson, James Avramenko

James Avramenko 00:00
This episode of Friendless is presented by the Saskatchewan Podcast Network. My babies we are back then you were tuned into Friendless, the only podcast about losing all your Facebook friends, one hour at a time. As always, I am your host, James Avramenko. continuing my quest to have no more friends left on that hellscape we’ve come to call Facebook. This week, I have the founder of the Saskatchewan Podcast Network. Dale Richardson on the show. We talked about building networks do podcasting, the one way intimacy of new media, holding on to the memories of old friends. And once again, I asked him what he thinks it takes to be a good friend in the face of an ongoing pandemic, and hyper divided culture. Season Three just keeps chugging along. I don’t have any major announcements right now, so I won’t take up any more of your precious time. Instead, I encourage you to lay back and enjoy the dulcet tones of me and Dale Richardson here on Friendless. So my guest today is Dale Richardson, the founder and do we call you president? What’s it? What’s your job title of the Saskatchewan Podcast Network?

Dale Richardson 01:34
Just founder. Yeah I do, I do, I do the day to day management of it. But I mean, I don’t I don’t like any fancy title of, you know, CEO or president turn it in like that. So yeah, founder,

James Avramenko 01:47
Maybe when we expand it a little bit more, and maybe then we can get those right. But

Dale Richardson 01:51

James Avramenko 01:52
So how the hell are you man?

Dale Richardson 01:55
I’m good. You know, today was it was a particularly you know, I, I, I don’t like the word busy.

James Avramenko 02:02

Dale Richardson 02:02
But today was just kind of one of those days. But I’m really glad that I’m able to do this tonight. Because it’s kind of like a end of day. unwinding, you know, conversational thing. So, no, I’m doing. I’m doing all right.

James Avramenko 02:19
So this is your sort of day job too, though, right? So I, where do I want to start? I have so many things I want to ask you. Because we actually don’t know each other that well. And so this is really exciting in the context of the show, because we’re, you know, we’re obviously connected to podcasting, and through Facebook, but don’t know each other personally very well. And when you asked to be on the show, I got really excited because it’s an opportunity to sort of explore that like that weird, that weird tension that lies in like sort of stranger Facebook, you know?

Dale Richardson 03:01

James Avramenko 03:02
We’re I always like to sort of start is usually asking how my guest sort of remembers us meeting. And I feel like that’ll be a really easy question for you. But because it’s only been once or twice, but

Dale Richardson 03:18
Well, of course, of course, we met at at the at the CBC podcast meetup. And now is in. Was it last fall? Already? November 29, maybe November or December? last last year, right?

James Avramenko 03:34
Yep. Yep. I think. Yeah.

Dale Richardson 03:36
Yeah. And yeah, cb CBC Saskatchewan. Yeah, they put on this great podcast meetup event. And I don’t know if I, if I knew you were gonna be there or not. But but then you, you came and sat down next to me and said, Hey, I’m James. Oh, yeah. Great. Good to was so yeah. That’s, that’s where we met.

James Avramenko 03:56
Cause up to that point, we had basically been, like, we have just been emails to each other like, you exist.

Dale Richardson 04:04
That’s right.

James Avramenko 04:04
You existed purely as text in my mind.

Dale Richardson 04:06
Yeah. Well, and that event, and an event was really great for me because you in addition to I think there were I think there were a number of of members of the podcast network that were also there and and same situation. I never, I’d never met them in person before. And so that because I met I met the golf guys there. Jade Roberts. She was there. The guys that do the Regina Pats podcast, they were there too. So, um, yeah, I mean, that was that was a great event to actually see people and and it’s, and it’s so interesting to talk to, oh, maybe it was somebody at that event. I said, You know, I think podcasters in general, at least, not in general, but I think some podcasters are probably like me in that We don’t like I’m an introvert. I don’t really like going out and, and, you know, doing public public networking events and that’s what that event was. Yeah, but but I loved it because we were all talking about the same topic and love for the same thing, which was podcasting.

James Avramenko 04:28
Mm hmm. I felt I felt that exact same anxiety, especially, because I had to, I drove in from Saskatoon. So I drove in by myself, and you know, got a hotel for the night. And, yeah, and really, you know, so so I had sort of that, that extra tension of being in a strange city, you know, like, I don’t, I’m not from Saskatchewan. So I don’t know, even Saskatoon where I live very well, let alone You know, Regina, this whole other city. And so I spent the whole afternoon just in my hotel room, and bed and bed like killed time before the meeting, just kind of driving around. And, and then when I got there, it really felt like, you know, like that feeling of like the first day at camp or like the first day of school or something where you’re sort of like, kind of kicking your, you know, kicking the dirt a little bit sort of waiting to see who’s going to talk to you. And I was so grateful that there was there was a couple, you know, SPN alum, I don’t know what you want to call them. Members. And, and you know, we had that great. It feels so cheesy when you’re doing it. But then it’s so useful is like the badge. You know, yeah, just that big dorky badge that says, Hi, my name is James and my show is threadless. Right? I know. I know, it feels so dumb, and that it’s so useful, right?

Dale Richardson 06:44
Yeah, no, it was it was it was a very good event. And yeah, no, basically basically what you just what do you describe there as just like any any networking event for me, I was, you know, because I don’t, I don’t, I don’t really like going up and talking to people. It makes me uncomfortable. But it was it was a very good event just just to meet people like you in person. And yeah, I thought it was great.

James Avramenko 07:10
Podcasting as well is like a very, it’s an oddly isolating art, you know, or practice, right? Because it’s, it’s, it’s this very bizarre. I’ve yet to really put my finger on it. But I’ve definitely sort of ruminated. You know, and it’s this idea of it’s it’s a very intimate art, because it’s, it’s a speaker, and the speaker is right in your brain. So it’s it’s like a one on one. It’s like, I mean, it’s you know, the closest thing I equated to is like a book, right? Because it’s, it’s it’s single, you know, yeah, you can put it on speakerphone. But I find people who listen to things on speakerphone to be just complete assholes. So I tried to sort of eliminate them. But, but so it’s a very intimate, medium. Right. And, and yeah, and it’s, and it’s also so personal for the Creator. You think about how it’s so accessible and so easy to make one. And that creates this spectrum of content of really personal expression. And I mean, we’re, we haven’t even tapped into it. You know, it’s only a 15 year old. 15-20 year old medium. And yeah, I guess it’s technically radio, but it’s different. Because it’s more accessible. You don’t need a studio, you don’t need, you know, a broadcaster and all those kinds of things. So it’s, it’s, it’s not even the Wild West yet. You know what I mean? Like, it’s not even the frontier, it’s still just the, you know, the expanse,right.

Dale Richardson 08:37
You know, one of the, one of the things I find myself thinking about is sometimes is, is how I would maybe feel if, if my if the, if the host of my favorite podcasts if they were to die? And and I feel is incredibly sad when I think about that, and I shouldn’t because, I mean, I mean, it’s unlikely that they’ll drop that at any second, but but you’re right, and that, but that, that that speaks to the intimacy of, of the relationship between the podcast host and the listener, and you’re exactly right. It’s, it is a,

James Avramenko 09:13
we’re making such a it’s actually a really bizarre experience. And I think that we’re seeing it especially in other you, we see it, especially in somewhere like YouTube, where, you know, you’re seeing fans become so enamored with these creators, that they’re, they really do think of them as friends. And I do think that that’s healthy to an extent, but then there’s obviously the possibility of going too far as there is with every art and every, you know, interacting with the world always has the risk of running into someone who likes you a little too much. Right. But But,

Dale Richardson 09:46
you know, you know, one of the situations that Yeah, thinking about this, my dogs barking, by the way. We were in New York a couple years ago, and the daily from the New York Times is one You know, like many people, it’s one of one of my favorite podcasts. And, and I love the host, Michael, Michael Barbaro. And I actually tried to email him when we were there. And I didn’t know what his email was, I thought maybe it’s no Mike Michael Dodd Barbaro at at New York times.com, or whatever it is. And I was hoping, maybe we’ll just, we’ll just meet each other, I’ll go to the New York Times building, and I’ll just shake his hand, tell them how much I love the podcast. And, and that would be one of the highlights of my life. But of course, I’ve never, I never heard from him. But, but I didn’t get a bounce back email. So I think that it maybe at least got through to his inbox.

James Avramenko 10:45
And that’s such a bizarre feeling that I’ve only ever been on one side of it. I, you know, I listened to last podcast on the left pretty pretty regularly, I’ve kind of fallen off and the reason but but for years, I’ve listened to them. And we finally went to see one of their live shows a couple years ago. And, and, you know, there’s these lineups have to at the end of the show to meet each of them individually. And, and it’s so bizarre to meet this person who you feel this like, very intimate relationship with. And yet they have no idea who you are. Right. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s the one thing that’s kind of preventing us, I think, from sort of taking it to the next tier of whatever, you know, social interaction might be is, is that it’s still a one way relationship. And, you know, you get that one thing that a lot of YouTubers, you know, thanks, guys, I love you Love My fans, you right, you know, like, but it’s such a generic statement. And it’s not, I don’t find it to be genuine, because I I don’t think it’s possible to fully recognize the the audience in this type of medium

Dale Richardson 11:57
well, you know, I don’t I don’t, or I don’t follow her anymore. My my mother, she, she follows this woman on YouTube. Adrian, yoga yoga with Adrian, she’s a very, very popular yoga instructor and she’s injured on YouTube. And one of the I don’t know if she if she did this in one of her videos on on YouTube or not, but my mom was telling me that at some point she was talking about boundaries with with her followers, and you know, where she’ll, she’ll be in situations, but you know, I guess it’s out in public, where people come up to her. And, you know, it’s, you know, she gets millions and millions of views on her YouTube channel, right. And, and people come flying up to her like, she’s a rock star. And she has to say, I appreciate so much that you guys that you, you know that you feel this way. But you know, she she goes, I’m still a person. And you and I don’t know each other. Yeah. And even though I appreciate how much you enjoy following me there are we need to have this boundary. So it’s Yeah, it’s a it’s a very interesting world that we live in, isn’t it? It’s just it’s kind of wild.

James Avramenko 13:26
So let’s take it back a little bit, though, because I want to hear all about how you got. So we know the end of the story is, and then I enlisted James to have friendless be on the Saskatchewan Podcast Network. But, but but to get to that point. With what sort of what got you into founding the podcast network? And then also with your I know, you founded your own company over the last couple years? It’s with the 306 Media. Yeah. And so so what sort of what got all those balls rolling for you?

Dale Richardson 14:05
To be honest, so I worked in government for a number of years. And on the on the, on the political side of government. And I got to a point, honestly, James, where I where I realized that I had had a creativity, there was a part of me that wasn’t I wasn’t able to express my, my personal creativity. And so for and that, that manifested itself through wanting to do a podcast, but not being told you can’t do a podcast because you work on the political side of government. You know, who knows what your guests may say on the podcast, who knows what you may say, you could say something that might be you know, kind of nice. damaging, but just trying to like, have, you know, a bit, a bit whatever. And, you know, I totally understand. I totally understood that I understand it even more now. Yeah, there was a, there was a part of me that, that wanted to do things like, like my own podcast, and have a platform where I can, can express myself and connect with other people that I that I wanted to. And so that was, you know, that was one of the main reasons why I left government in, in August 2018 was I just, I was ready to, you know, to go into into private consulting, and also start my own podcast, and then eventually I did that. I did the podcast network. So yeah, I mean, I, it took me a little while to figure out, you know, the creativity part of it, that, you know, that there was a part of me that wasn’t being used, and I really needed to do it. But so I used to play piano growing up. And, and I realized that that was a channel that I was able to, you know, be be creative with. And then I wasn’t, I was in drama in high school, that and I really loved doing that. And then I guess I found that as I, you know, as you move into adulthood, and you know, you kind of work a regular job, whatever that means. I wasn’t, I wasn’t able to get to get those things out of me, I guess. And, and, and I and I guess I kind of realized probably the most realistic Avenue or channel for me to, to be creative is to, was to do a podcast, and and to work on my own independently. So. So yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s kind of .that’s kind of how that happened

James Avramenko 16:55
How do you sort of springboard? I say this with with with love, but how do you? How do you have the audacity to springboard from doing your own podcasts to starting an entire network? I just think that’s such a, I mean, in the most wonderful sense of the term, I just think it’s, it’s like, because for me, you know, I had my little podcast, and I was just trucking along, and I would never think, oh, and now I’m gonna, like, you know, sort of sublet or, you know, subsidize, you know, a dozen, two dozen shows.

Dale Richardson 17:29
So, when I launched my podcast, so that was fall 2018? I don’t know how I came across it, it might, it might have been on Instagram, I guess. But the Alberta Podcast Network was was something that I came across. And, I mean, really, it’s, it’s, it’s what the Saskatchewan podcast number is modeled after I basically just just ripped them off and duplicated, what they were doing. And I, and at the time, you know, like, I, I called their, their president and said, I’m, I love what you are doing. And I want to do exactly the same thing here. So, you know, there was there was no issues without your, your copying salary. How dare you? But no, it was, it was the same reason that I started my podcast and started started my own consulting company is, I was, and still, I was incredibly excited and passionate about, about creating something from the ground up and creating something that nobody had done in the province before. Um, you know, I, I spent a long time, you know, researching and, you know, kind of kind of scouring the internet to see, is there something similar to this idea that maybe I’ve missed? I haven’t seen it, you know, maybe it’s out there. Maybe somebody previously did it, but it’s not currently active. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out if somebody had had done something like this before, and they, and they hadn’t, right. And that, that idea, you know, kind of the prospect of building something like this from the ground up, and, you know, hopefully having, you know, at least a few podcasts on the network. I didn’t I didn’t think that there would be, you know, I think I think we have 30-35, almost 40 members on there now. Right. Um, but that that prospect is very exciting for me.

James Avramenko 19:31
Yeah. I mean, it’s been a hugely help. incredibly helpful resource for me. I mean, it’s what you know, the the post on the network site is what got me noticed for like, the CBC article that was written and yeah, that turned into a little circus for a week and like, and also I mean, I’m convinced it’s what has kept my show live because I haven’t really, I’ve kind of gone on a hiatus for a couple months because I you know, I, I pre recorded a bunch of interviews, and then COVID hit and then I just got mush brain, and I just had to Just kind of step away from a lot of stuff and, and even in the, you know, three month interim that I’ve had, I guess for months now, it still had the show’s still had consistent plays, you know, and and I really I can’t help but chalk that up to the, to the network, right I got, you know, as much as I’d love to believe it’s like my sparkling personality that’s that’s bringing people to the show even when I don’t try.

Dale Richardson 20:28
well, no, I mean, I mean, obviously, that’s a big part of it. But, you know, my, my hope with the podcast network is, is basically what what happened to yours. Or, you know, at least you you think that this happened was it, we are able to give our podcast department members, at least a hand up, right. And, you know, we that there are podcasts on the on the network that I have a lot of listens. And there are some that have not that many listens. But I think that, you know, there, there are still people that are able to go to the website, into our, into our, into our social media channels. And at least I see new podcasts here in Saskatchewan that, that they didn’t know about, and that if they want to they can go and listen. Right, totally. And that and that, you know, in addition to to, you know, creating something from the ground up like this. The other goal that I really wanted to to reach with it was to have a single place where people can go and find Saskatchewan podcasts. Because that, that was the most frustrating thing for me. When I started my own podcast was, I was, you know, who who else is in the podcasting community in this province? Where are these other podcasts? And what are they podcasting about? And who are the people that are that are doing the podcasting? And I couldn’t I couldn’t figure it out. It’s if you if you search on Google podcasts in Saskatchewan, or, versus catching podcasts, or some variation of

James Avramenko 22:09
It’s either nothing or it’s a mess.

Dale Richardson 22:11
Yeah. And honestly, the way James that I found most of the podcasts, at least the ones that that I reached out to initially was was on Reddit. There was a a, I’m not a not a Reddit user. So I’m not not that familiar with all the other terms. But there was a I think it’s called a subreddit. There was a subreddit with a bunch of Saskatchewan based podcasts. And I just I wrote them down, I contacted, I contacted those podcasts that they had social media pages. And that’s, I mean, that was a kind of another big piece was just tracking these people down and saying, Hey, I’m building this kind of model. What do you think about it? And do you want to do want to be a part of it? And, you know, nine out of 10 of them said, Absolutely. So.

James Avramenko 23:02
Well, I mean, it just makes it it kind of makes sense, right? It’s just it’s a way to kind of keep everybody in a, you know, in, in in connection and help give each other leg up. Speaking of this, actually, I want to bridge into, so I’ve been the plan for this season is to sort of explore three, three sort of pillar questions. And one of them is, is sort of tough for us to answer because we don’t, and I and I say this with no malicious intent, but we don’t have much of a friendship. So number two is a little bit tough. But in speaking of, you know, community and connection, I think this really draws into one of the main points that I’ve been really trying to unpack with the show, and just in general, and I’d like to hear your thoughts on it, of how would you define friendship? Whether it’s in the modern age, whether it’s just in general? What do you think it takes to be a friend nowadays?

Dale Richardson 24:05
Ah, so I was, I was thinking about this question before we started and you and I have a mutual friend, I believe. Luke Pennock. Yeah. And I, and I think about Luke all the time. And because one of the things that makes it doesn’t, it doesn’t really make me sad about, about getting older in life, but it’s something that I that I kind of miss a little bit is when when you are younger, and you are able to just, you know, there are more funny, or at least I found they’re more genuinely funny. Laugh out loud moments when you were younger. And that’s, you know, likely because you just, you know, you don’t have any responsibility. You don’t have a job, most likely, you know, particularly if you’re in high school, you know, all the all these reasons and I have found as you get older, you know, the responsibilities of life, kind of, you know, build up on you and your family and, you know, financial stuff and everything. I find those last moments like that, but I find myself thinking about Luke, in those situations, because out of anybody in my life, probably that I’ve ever known. He, when I want to think of a funny moment in my life, he almost always pops up. And, and, and the example that I always think of is in grade grade 10 English in high school, he walked up to my desk, in the middle of the class, the teacher was teaching whatever he was saying, he walked up to my desk, stood in front of it and just shimmy right in my face. And the only reason he did that was because he knew that I would laugh, and think it was, and think it was funny. So I think of friendship is kind of a roundabout way of getting to this is, if, if there’s a single happy moment, or a happy memory, that I can think of with with somebody that I’ve had with them, then they are my friend. Yeah, we don’t we think of you know, I think friendship is. And, you know, I think particularly as we get older, it the concept is different. You know, if I saw Luke and, and I, and I hope to soon we would, you know, he and I right now we are not active friends, we haven’t seen each other years. You know, we have different social groups now. You know, he lives with his partner I understand in this cat. Yeah, we, we, I don’t see him. But I think that if we saw each other, we would, because of those kind of its share history as well is what it is. Yep, shared history and at least one good memory of time together. I mean, that’s, that’s friendship to me. And I, and I, and I love thinking about those times.

James Avramenko 27:18
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Dale Richardson 29:02
Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I would, you know, you and I are probably in the same boat in that regard. I find myself, you know, thinking about things and that I want, and I think, Well, you know, what, why doesn’t that person ever texted me? Right? Call me or send me a message on Facebook? Yeah. But then, but then you realize, you know, what, how am I to ever get inside their brain? And, and I’m, you know, for all I know, Luke could be thinking about the same moment of him shimmying in front of my desk, or have him at this great party that we went to in high school at a friend’s house. It’s another moment and I won’t bring it up. But, you know, it’s just, you know, or like, the other week I posted something on Facebook. There was a basketball player for the Houston Rockets that was that was sent home from the bubble in Orlando. Because he had a girl. He brought in a he brought in an outside they call her an outside girl. Yeah, woman too. into his hotel room. And that wasn’t allowed. And I and I shared it on Facebook and said, it’s like this time when, when chris chris below another one of my friends in high school, psych assignment, Chris was sent home from the grade 11 band trip to Bamp. And he commented he died laughing and I and I knew he would find it to be so funny. Yep. And I haven’t seen Chris in 10 years. Yeah, same thing, you know?

James Avramenko 30:24
Well, and that’s the thing. And that’s actually the thing I always have to remind myself of, because I’ll often catch myself thinking, Oh, why hasn’t that person written to me? Why don’t they reach out, but then what I work really hard to kind of, you know, flip it on myself of like, Well, why haven’t you written to them? You know, why haven’t you called, you know, like you have, you know, I have just as much of an ability to message anybody I want, as they have to message me. And so something I’m trying really hard to do is be more proactive in that. I think that Facebook and all sort of social medias have this capacity to make us really passive in our behavior in the way that people will, you know, share things, or they’ll like, or they’ll, you know, maybe they’ll comment, and it sort of creates this capacity. And this thought that they’ve sort of done enough, you know, and whether that’s in terms of activism, activism, whether that’s in terms of, you know, artistic support, or whatever it might be, I think it really has the capacity to make us passive in our behavior, and but still tell ourselves, we’ve done something and, and so I’m trying really hard to be a lot more cognizant of, you know, if I share something, I haven’t actually done something for the cause. I’ve just sort of amplified a message, but it’s not the message. And it’s also not anything physical, you know, and so in the same capacity, as you know, you know, writing to a friend or something, it’s like, that’s only, that’s really to me, only the first step. And, and it’s okay, that’s okay, if that’s the only step you want to take, you know, but it’s this whole thought I’ve been having of like, like, it’s, it’s okay, to want something shitty, but it’s better to admit you want something shitty than it is to lie about it and say you actually want something else. Like, I think we’d get a lot further in our sort of social behavior, if behaviors if we stopped lying to each other about what it is we actually want with, you know, whether it’s our job, whether it’s our social standing, whether it’s artistic practice, whatever it might be, right? Like, right, I think a lot about the systems of, you know, power and the systems of, of, you know, gatekeeping. And and I often want to ask people who are sort of fighting these systems? Is it that you want a fundamental breakdown of this system? Or do you just want to be in those positions of power? because both are fine. Both are valid statements. But I think a lot more people are actually fighting for one when they’re saying they’re fighting for the other end. So you know, I think that’s something that I I realized this is sort of spun us out in a very different direction than the initial but it’s just it’s it’s sort of where my mind goes with these thoughts of, you know, actively contacting people and actively interacting with with social media.

Dale Richardson 33:18
Yeah, well, no, I think about that all the time, too. And I, yeah, I, you know, not to keep going back to him. But I think about our mutual friend Luke.

James Avramenko 33:28
he’s a great friend. He’s great to come back.

Dale Richardson 33:31
Yeah. But have I sent him, you know, flipped him a message on Facebook? No, I should, because I think he would probably respond and say, great to hear it. Great to hear from you.

James Avramenko 33:43
Oh, absolutely. I will say I will say when found out that you ran this network because he Yeah, he and I, you know, he we’ve been trying to time it right to get him on the show. We also have talked about a couple of podcasts ourselves. And yeah, and he’s like, Dale Richardson. Is he this Dale Richardson from Saskatoon and as like, yeah. And he’s like, a great guy. Like he, you know, like he, he, he Yeah, he remembers you well, and I’d be granted like, Luke Pennock, I think, is an example of what like, like, I don’t know how to say it, right. He’s just, he’s a really, really good friend. You know, he is a shining example of what it takes to be a really good friend. He’s warm, he’s caring. He’s engaged. He You know, he like he’s, he’s, he’s a he’s a hard one to replicate.

Dale Richardson 34:35
Oh, yeah. Now there’s, there’s only one of him.

James Avramenko 34:37
Right? Yeah. Do you think it with the state of the world with the state of Facebook with the state of social media with state of COVID and, you know, perpetual potential more lockdowns and all these kinds of things. Do you think it’s possible To be a good friend in 2020. And and I guess to sort of identify that a little bit, is that a right word? I don’t know. Is it is it? Is it being a good friend? Or is it just being a? Or what I guess what, what I’m trying to say is, what would you define as a good friend? And then is it possible to be that good friend in 2020?

Dale Richardson 35:25
Oh, man. Well, yeah, no, I think it is possible. To be a good friend, I think I think it just probably, I don’t know, if for some people, it just might look different. For some people. It might, it might look exactly the same. Yeah, I mean, man that is such a tough question. I know, I think. I think it’s just, I don’t know, I think I think everybody has gone through a, through a paradigm shift in the in the last six months. You know, I think people’s expectations about life in general, and the speed at which things move to like, you know, I’ve been thinking, like, in the last couple weeks that, you know, how many people really expected us to still be, you know, worried about contact tracing? And, you know, you know, COVID, COVID related things, six months into it. I mean, some people obviously, did, and they were and they were obviously correct, but I think I think the rest of us were hoping that okay, like, let’s, like, this is enough. Um, but I mean, I think, yeah, of course, it’s, of course, it’s possible to be a great trend, but it but it very spate You know, it depends on each person, right? You know, I have, I have different different relationships with with my great, you know, great or best friends. People, other other people will have different kind of relationships with their friends, and and it probably looks a bit different. So, yeah, man, what a What a question. What What do you think

James Avramenko 37:18
Man, You know, it’s why I asked people, other people, because I don’t have an answer for it. I really don’t know. I, I think often. I mean, a lot of this line of questioning in general, for me stems from a real deep rooted anxiety about how I’m seen how I’m remembered how I’m thought of, you know, I, you know, I talked about it before, and I’ve talked about it many times in the show, I can’t help but sort of, and I don’t know, if it’s, I don’t know, if it’s some form of narcissism, or if it’s some form of trauma, or somewhere in the middle, but I, I can’t help but I have to constantly be fighting this thought that people secretly hate me, you know. And so, so, you know, I guess I’m constantly exploring this idea of what it means to be a good friend, because I’m not sure if I have been one. And I, and I’d like, I’d like to hope that I have been, and I’d like to hope people think of me fondly, and I, and I’m doing my best to be as nice as I can in this world that is so easily mean to each other. And so, you know, yeah, I guess, where I go with it. And when I think about it is it’s, for me, it’s right now, where I’m at today, I mean, this will probably change tomorrow or even later on in the conversation. It’s, it’s, it’s less about being a good friend to other people, and more about making sure you’re being as good to yourself as you possibly can be. Because that will run that will then sort of bleed into your behavior in the world. I think that we have this real, at least I have this real habit of just beating myself up and just telling myself all the reasons why I don’t deserve this or that or the other thing, and then that translates into anxiety and fear and hatred of the world around me, you know, and that that bleeds into how I behave around people and how I expect people to behave around me. it bleeds in how I allow people to behave around me, right. And so I think it’s just at the end of the day, it’s about being as good a friend to yourself as you can be first.

Dale Richardson 39:38
Yeah, you know, I was, I was just thinking about it. You know, it was it was my birthday, not this past weekend, but the weekend before on the on the 12th. And, and I and I was thinking about, you know, the people that texted me on that day, you know, and I you know, and of course there’s, you know, there’s an alert on On Facebook, where facebook, facebook tells you when people’s birthday is if they did, they still have, you know, leave it up there and, but you know, I’ve always kind of used the use the measure of if somebody texts, you know, if one of my friends texts or even calls me, on my birthday, that’s a, you know, that’s a pretty good, pretty good sign that they, that they’re, that they’re at least at least a good friend to me. But, and, you know, kind of kind of in line with what you’re talking about, um, I do get mad, or get upset when people don’t reach out to me enough or like, they don’t meet the meet the threshold in terms of how, how often they text me, instead of me texting them to check in to see how they are doing. But then I but then I, you know, kind of pull myself back and go, you know, these, these people are just like me, and I, I don’t know what they went through today. Or went through in the last week or last month. You know, maybe their mom is sick or in the hospital or whatever. And, you know, but it’s, you know, it’s kind of it’s something that I that I grapple with is, you know, working through this, this thought process of why don’t people care as much about me as I, at least at least at least I think I care about that.

James Avramenko 41:30
Sure, sure. And I mean, I think that’s it, that’s a really, that everybody needs to constantly remind themselves that, like, everybody is having a really hard time. You know, like, I don’t think anybody is having an easy go of it, especially these days, but like, I just, I just don’t think anybody’s having that easy a time, especially the people that you think are I think that they have shit going on that they’re just not showing you, you know, and I think we all have to remind ourselves that like, social media isn’t real. And what you’re looking at isn’t real. It’s just what people choose to show you. And and, and so you have to be so careful with sort of gauging and judging other people’s lives. When there’s just there’s when there’s actual life going on behind them, you know?

Dale Richardson 42:23
Yep. Yep, you nailed it.

James Avramenko 42:26
Man Dale. You know, I, uh, you’re you are just an absolutely great guy. And I’m just so glad that we have this connection to this to this podcast. And I really hope that what we have to do next, is it going to affect us long term but but we are unfortunately running out of time. And so I have to pull up your Facebook and do one last thing.

Dale Richardson 42:50
You’re doing the unfriend aren’t ya?

James Avramenko 42:51
Oh yeah. Oh, yeah buddy. So. Dale Richardson.

Dale Richardson 42:57
What a sad moment.

James Avramenko 43:00
We are no longer Facebook friends.

Dale Richardson 43:03
Oh my god.

James Avramenko 43:04
How you feeling?

Dale Richardson 43:05
I feel I feel I feel sad about it.

James Avramenko 43:09
It’s very, um, you know,

Dale Richardson 43:10
I I’ve loved I have loved seeing your, your memes for your book. And I will. And I mean, hopefully we become friends again on Facebook. I think that’s the point of this whole thing is, should we actually be friends?

James Avramenko 43:28

Dale Richardson 43:29
And I mean, I’m gonna I’m gonna miss those memes until we until we become friends.

James Avramenko 43:34
I’ve been mostly posting them on I post them on Instagram too. So if you want to follow me on Instagram, where

Dale Richardson 43:39
I do,

James Avramenko 43:39
Oh yeah well, there you go. There you go. Okay, then basically you’ll miss nothing because I think one of the big jokes of this show is that like it’s like pissing in the wind right? You know? It’s like I unfriend on Facebook but but that we friend on Instagram so it’s like nothing’s changed. You know I barely use Facebook anyway.

Dale Richardson 43:59
What a platform.

James Avramenko 44:00
Yeah, God but listen man, thank you so much for coming on the show I just wish you all the best with with it with everything going forward with the with the I really hope the network takes off and blows up and I hope you know we get 40 more shows and then we just take over the world you know

Dale Richardson 44:16
that’s what that’s what I’d like to because then I can I you know hopefully I can not actually work my regular you know, day job. I can just do podcasts and stuff all that

James Avramenko 44:25
God wouldn’t that just be the dream to just podcast for a living

Dale Richardson 44:31
It is. I’ve, I didn’t say that yet on this podcast, but Hell yeah. If somebody gave me the option to just podcast and help other people do podcasting and oh, yeah, I would. I would. I would definitely take that.

James Avramenko 44:45
Fuck yeah. That’s it, another episode in the bag. Thanks once more to Dale for coming on the show. And thanks to his Saskatchewan Podcast Network as well as connexus. for sponsoring, Friendless and doing everything that they do to help support the show, be sure to check out the entire Podcast Network, go to saskpodcastnetwork.com to see all the great shows that are being made. If you like what I’m doing here, please be sure to give the show a five star review, especially on Apple podcasts, it helps the show so so much. And you know what, it’s just a nice thing to do. So be nice. ya fuckin’ jerk. You can follow me as always on all the usual suspects of social media at friendlesspod. I’m gonna put out a little challenge to the listeners this week. What do you think it takes to be a good friend? email me your thoughts at friendlesspod@gmail.com? Or send me your answers on social media, if get enough responses, Or if I get some good ones. I will read them out on future episodes. So be sure to answer that question. For now. That’s it for me. Next week, you will hear from another high school friend Andrea Campbell. It was incredibly fun interview and I just I cannot wait to share it with y’all. But that’s next week. But now, for this week. You just have a great couple days. And I hope the bummers are few and far between because I mean, let’s face it, there’s probably gonna be a bummer or two in there. But but that’s all right. Can’t win them all. Anyway, I’m out of here. Fun and safety, y’all

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